Interviewed by: Robert Čoban
Samih Sawiris, owner of the Egyptian-Swiss concern “Orascom“
When I was on Mamula for the first time three years ago, I wrote the text “The Boka Dream of a Coptic Billionaire” about how Samih Sawiris bought this island at the entrance to Boka Kotorska for 49 years. Now I had the opportunity to have a nice conversation with him about Mamula, which has been operating under the Singaporean hotel brand “Banian Tree” since last year, but also about numerous other topics.
Those familiar with the situation back then, in 2023, told me that while Luštica Bay is a serious investment project of the 66-year-old Egyptian Copt and billionaire Samih Sawiris, Mamula Island is a kind of his private “toy”. Namely, in earlier statements, Sawiris himself said that the income from the 32 rooms and suites in the hotel would not be able to cover even the salaries of the employees.
Orascom Group, founded in Egypt in 1950 by Onsi Sawiris, today owns cement plants, hotels, housing complexes, telecoms and other companies around the world.
Onsi Sawiris, the youngest of four children in a family of Egyptian Orthodox Christians, founded his own company in 1950 at the age of twenty and began his rise to the global business and financial heights. He died in 2021 at the age of 91. His middle son, Samih Sawiris, has held Montenegrin citizenship in addition to his Egyptian citizenship since 2011. He is believed to be worth around a billion dollars and as such is officially the 26th richest man in Africa. In addition to Luštica and Mamula, he owns a hotel complex in Switzerland and Egypt, the Lucerne Football Club in Switzerland, and the German branch of the Thomas Cook tour operator. As we sit in the shade of his favorite bar on Mamula, Sawiris orders tea and begins his story.
“The cost of restoring, preserving and maintaining such a complex as a cultural asset is beyond anyone’s imagination. I know this from personal experience, because I come from Egypt. There we have a similar situation with the old Mamluk houses. The state simply does not have the money to maintain them. When you have hundreds and hundreds of monuments from the ancient period, it is impossible to take care of them all. The result is that one by one they are falling into disrepair.
When did you first see the island?
It was 14 years ago. I was flying in search of land for Luštica Bay. I first saw the Luštica area and the beach from the air. I am naturally curious and I do not like to miss anything interesting, so I said to the pilot:
“Don’t come back yet, let’s fly the rest of the coast all the way to the entrance to the Bay of Kotor.”
Then I saw the island and asked him:
“Can you fly me over this island?”
When we flew over it, I said to myself:
“Okay, for our project – Luštica Bay is the best place after all.”
It was closer and had two natural locations for marinas – one smaller, like the one we have today, and the other on the site of a former quarry. I had no dilemmas about Luštica.
As for Malula, if Montenegro had then – or even today – had a budget of, say, 100 million euros per year for the renovation of such facilities, I would have said:
“No, let the state do it itself.”
But there was no such money. This is also evident in the fortresses, churches and other historical buildings that also belong. Unfortunately, the situation is the same in Serbia, Bosnia and most of the region.
In the Norwegian or Swedish states, they have enough funds. In our country, the authorities generally have excellent intentions.
But there is a famous saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Everyone said:
“No, no, this is a cultural monument, part of the national heritage, forget about any commercial use.”
Later, I toured the island by boat and went inside. It was a complete disaster. Everything that could be taken away had been stolen – the doors, the gates, every valuable part of the building. The walls were full of traces of drug addicts, dirt everywhere and complete neglect.
I thought: “Okay, I’ll forget about this.”
Years passed. The island was practically taken over by seagulls. After two or three years, I came back – the situation was even worse.
I told the government representatives:
“People, you’re not doing anything. You said you were going to rebuild the fortress.”
The answer was always the same:
“We don’t have the budget. We have more important projects.”
Seven or eight years later, the situation was exactly the same.
Finally, after fourteen years, they realized that it was much better to save the fortress by giving it a new name than to let it completely collapse.
Believe me, if nothing was done, water would start to seep in between the walls, the roofs would collapse, and the trees growing through the stone would destroy the entire structure.
Do you know how the pharaohs broke granite? They didn’t have saws. They drilled a series of holes, inserted wooden pegs, then soaked them in water. The wood would swell and – the stone would crack.
If a tree can break granite, imagine what roots can do to these walls. One wall would fall, then another, and eventually everything would be gone.
Only then did they say:
“Okay. Do the project.”
– Now someone would say that you are attracted to “impossible projects”?
It drives me, but I have to be honest and pragmatic.
Only when you build a serious business that brings profit, as is Luštica Bay, it employs people, it grows and develops, you can afford bold projects.
But to come to Montenegro at that time and embark on such a venture meant being… 80 or 90 percent crazy.
And I hope that today, when people see the result, they understand what I’m saying from the beginning: these are not commercial projects.
They are a testimony of love for this country, for this place and the desire to revive something that was practically dead.
Today, people can come, tour it and see how it used to look.
Admiral Mamula, after whom the island was named, used to come here in person. He was an exceptional military commander, but also a man with a sense of architecture. Just look at the proportions, symmetry and details. Many military facilities have no aesthetic value, and this one is completely different.
– What, in your opinion, will be the wider influence of the Mamula Hotel on luxury tourism and the value of real estate in Montenegro? In a way, this is the flagship project in that segment.
Of course. That’s exactly how I presented this idea from day one.
The point is not how many rooms the hotel has, how much turnover or profit it will be. The bottom line is that Montenegro can say it has the most attractive hotel on the entire Adriatic.
There is no other hotel that can boast such a story. A modern luxury hotel can be built anywhere. But this combination of history, architecture and location is unique.
– You opened the hotel at the moment when Sveti Stefan was closed. Did you fear that you might experience a similar scenario in your relationship with the state or local community?
I think it is not fair to blame only the Government of Montenegro.
There are always two sides.
I’ve never had a conflict with a state of this magnitude, because it’s a win-win situation.
Even if you think the country is wrong, there is no point in going to war with it.
– But there were also disagreements with the local community?
Of course.
Such things could have been handled more elegantly.
The locals must always be on your side. If you lose it, you can hardly succeed.
– That’s why you also created a museum exhibit here that talks about the history of the fortress?
Yes. I remember that, when the hotel was opened, you wrote an article in which you said that almost every building in this area older than a hundred years was at some time a prison or a military facility.
There are many such examples in Serbia as well.
Someone says:
“There used to be a prison here.”
Yes, but maybe only a few months or a few years in a history of nearly two centuries.
You cannot ignore 180 years of history and remember only that one short period.
It’s like saying that the Citadel of Cairo is just a prison.
No – it was the ruler’s residence, a military center, an administrative seat. Only after the revolution in 1952 did it serve as a prison for a short time.
Today, tourists come for the mosque, the fortress and the history. No one comes because of prison.
The story surrounding Mamula was, in my opinion, unnecessarily dramatized, primarily thanks to a German journalist who wanted to create a negative story from the beginning.
– When the project finally came to life, you also organized Open Door Days for citizens.
Yes. At first, no one believed in the project.
Honestly, almost no project I’ve worked on in my life has met with trust at the very beginning.
But then you convinced me to open the doors to the public.
More than 4,500 people from Montenegro visited the complex.
It was a huge logistical and financial undertaking, but it completely changed the perception of the project.
People could finally see with their own eyes what was actually being done. That was in October or November 2022.
– Your vision is, in fact, to redefine the luxury hotel industry in the region?
I wouldn’t say that I’m some great visionary. My logic is very simple. If I finish a hotel like this, Montenegro will get the best hotel on the Adriatic.
When Amman on Sveti Stefan fully reopens one day, this small country will have more high-end luxury destinations than Croatia and Serbia combined.
Even earlier, I told the then president that Montenegro’s strategy should be to become the “Monte Carlo of the East“.
It should be a national strategy.
Montenegro has only about 650,000 or 700,000 inhabitants.
It does not need millions of new jobs.
If you were to develop mass tourism of four million tourists a year, you would have to import almost a million foreign workers. That doesn’t make much sense.
It is much more logical to develop a small number of extremely high-quality luxury destinations.
– What, in your opinion, made it possible for large investors to come to Montenegro in the first place?
The government of the time played a big role. I’m not saying this because there are people sitting here who were part of that system back then.
They simply instilled confidence. It was a small country where decisions were made quickly.
I remember meetings where in ten minutes all the ministers, the governor of the Central Bank and everyone who was needed to complete some work would be in the same room. This was very attractive to serious investors. I wasn’t the only one who thought so.
The people who brought in Amman, the Rothschild family and many other big international investors came to the same conclusion.
Everyone estimated that it is possible to do business effectively in Montenegro.
Of course, the government at that time was very stable and coordinated.
– Is there any new area in which you would like to invest? We heard that you are also interested in the film industry.
Since my son took over Luštica Bay, I am no longer involved in running the company.
– So now you have time for something new?
Exactly. I deliberately withdrew completely. I told my son that I would only help him if he asked for advice. If I stayed involved, everyone would still come to me, and that wouldn’t be good for him or the company.
Sometimes he asks my opinion, sometimes not. Sometimes he tells me what’s going on, sometimes he doesn’t.
Life goes on. But Mamula is my project. This is my little paradise.
– Did you have any disagreements with your son about Luštica Bay?
Of course. For example, around the main hotel.
Some wanted to demolish it and build a brand new, modern building. I was against it.
I said, “No. People need to see where it all started.”
It is important that it remains a part of history. You can’t erase the past.
– What principle did you follow in your business?
I have always asked myself one simple question:
“Would I like to live here?”
If the answer was yes, then I knew other people would want the same.
That was my basic rule.
I have visited many renovated military complexes in Germany. Some were so gloomy that you, as a guest, would want to leave immediately. Even when they were nicely restored, they just didn’t have good energy.
Location, size, atmosphere – all these influence the feeling that the visitor has. If that feeling is positive, the project will succeed.
If not, it won’t. For me, it is the simplest criterion.
– How much did you trust the feasibility studies?
Honestly – almost not at all. I’ve never read feasibility studies much. I even deliberately “cheated” myself at times.
For example, for Mamula, we initially predicted a budget of around 15 or 17 million euros. I knew it wouldn’t be enough.
But I wanted that budget to pass the approval of my advisers.
Later I could say:
“It turned out to be more than double the cost.”
In the end, the entire project, together with the first two years of operation, reached around 50 million euros. The construction itself cost about 28 million.
– Did the renovation take longer than originally planned?
Yes. Every time we opened a wall or part of the structure, we would discover a new problem. The damage was much greater than anyone could have guessed.
On Mamula, I saw for the first time that the rain, due to a hurricane storm, practically penetrates horizontally through the stone walls.
I couldn’t believe it. You are used to water coming from above. Here the wind is so strong that the water passes through the outer walls.
– How do you look at Montenegro today compared to when you first came?
The system has stabilized in the meantime. I don’t see any dramatic changes. But democracy brings one challenge.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone wants things done their way. That’s why today’s decision-making takes much longer than before. That’s completely normal.
When the government consists of several political parties, it is difficult to expect that everyone will agree on everything.
I think that this will slow down the implementation of new large projects. Montenegro is a small country.
That is why a few large investments can increase the gross domestic product very quickly. You don’t need a hundred projects like Luštica Bay.
Two or three are enough for the whole economy to feel strong growth.
– Why did you choose Banyan Tree as a partner in the vision of “Mamula Hotel”?
Because I’ve known them for almost four decades. Back when I was developing El Guna in Egypt, I went to Phuket and saw their Laguna Phuket project. Then they were the first to realize that a luxury hotel must not be just a hotel. It has to be a whole destination. The guest should have everything in one place.
That he doesn’t have to take a taxi to go into town for restaurants or shops. It made a huge impression on me. We kept in touch later. When the opportunity for Mamula came up, I immediately thought of them.
I knew how they worked and I knew they shared the same values.
– Do you share a love for music? We had the opportunity to hear the co-owner of the Banyan Group play the piano. Really impressive.
I didn’t know he was playing. If she really did a solo concert, then I have to go listen to her. (Laughter)
– It seems that you and the owners of Banyan Group are connected by the same principles – quality before fast growth.
Exactly. He has a schoolmate in Thailand who today owns more than five hundred hotels.
But Banyan Tree never wanted to grow at any cost. For them, quality was always more important than the number of objects. And that’s a philosophy I have the utmost respect for.